You tell it like it is my friend. So interesting to me, as a therapist, how I have to walk on eggshells while seeing couples (in fact, I decided this week to stop seeing couples and only see individuals, I think I can do better work without a muzzle on (no pun intended)) although I walk on eggshells I still hold what I believe to be the truth, I just get a lot of flak for it. As you know, I am an archetypal psychotherapist, and what you describe here is so clearly a very serious archetypal dysfunction.
Men need to learn to pull the sword half way out of the scabbard and let the sun glint off its shiny surface into the eyes of his opponent, rather than pull it all the way out and start slashing heads off when it is not appropriate. I find more women in my practice prodding men to slash rather than stand up to situations with strength and fortitude, with one hand on the sword, always ready, but strong enough to know when to use it. It isn't a woman's responsibility to make a man a man, but we are all in this together...
Thank you for this...no one can ever accuse you of having no balls.
All very perceptive and true. We need really strong women too in order to have strong, real men. Women and men seem to have been weakened across the board by the trending narratives and the mass psychosis you write of. When we ordinary folks notice this on a daily basis it’s gotta be pretty real. Also can’t help but think of the powerful effect of online forums. I see them as weakening all of us. They’re like High School as forces to move people toward the lowest common denominator. Thanks.
The thing is, toxic masculinity AND toxic femininity DO exist. They are the extremes of the gender roles manifested by deeply disturbed and traumatized people who believe that by exploiting the power they have over the opposite sex, they can benefit themselves at great expense to the other.
There are approximately 3 and half billion women in the world. They should not all have to constrain their behaviour, becoming more ‘feminine’ according to the gender roles that are imposed on them in order for men not to be predators. The work of feminists - and even that is a very broad endeavour that cannot possibly represent the interests of all women around the world - has been to liberate women from the brutality of male predation and place women on an equal economic, political, social and legal footing in society. Feminism was intended to elevate women from their status as chattel and property to actual human beings. Feminism, women's liberation, would simply not exist if patriarchal gender roles were working for women. As much as men would like to think so, women don’t all wish to be subservient to men. The average woman would like to be treated like a human being who matters, who is respected, whose boundaries are honoured and whose voice is heard.
Because you live a very insular, privileged and affluent life, you cannot possibly know what it means to realize every day that women are seen as only having value for their appearance. Yet here you are clearly saying that women should enjoy it, men should do more of it. I shouldn't have to say this, but being objectified is dehumanizing. Appreciating the opposite sex is fine as long as you appreciate more than just their body. But men stereotypically, because our culture condones this, don't seem to be particularly interested in what women have to offer beyond their bodies. 80% of men enjoy pornography, starting as young as 11 years old on average. But the porn men enjoy now is utterly vile, abusive, degrading and despicable. Boys and men are being taught through porn that women's bodies are to be CONSUMED, not appreciated. They take that perspective out into the world and then resent that women don't accept their predatory behaviour as normal. What you're proposing - and this is terrifying to me as a woman - is that men be ENCOURAGED to dehumanize women, as if they don't already do enough of it.
Mark, there's a reason why 90% of the prison inmates are male. And even the 10% of inmates who are female are there mostly for non-violent crimes. In fact the vast majority of female prison inmates are themselves survivors of abuse at the hands of their husbands, fathers, brothers, sons, boyfriends. What would you propose these women should have done? Be MORE feminine? As if their abusers became abusive because they weren't feminine enough? That's misogynist and utterly out of touch with reality.
If you check out William Ferguson's substack, all of his articles, he documents, along with many other men out there thank goodness, the rampant misogyny that we're seeing globally. Men don't become predators and monsters because women aren't feminine enough. Men become monsters because women have been portrayed as prey in our media, in cultural stories about romance, in pornography (Read Porn Inc for a shocking exploration of what male sexuality is becoming - https://www.amazon.com/Big-Porn-Inc-Exposing-Pornography/dp/1876756896), in men's groups. Men simply don't see women as human. Your article is yet another example of this.
So, no. we should not celebrate toxic masculinity. We should celebrate strong, healthy grounded men AND women in whatever capacity they show up on a continuum of masculine and feminine traits. We should not shame and punish women who are strong and try to weaken them in order for men not to be afraid of them. We should discourage toxic femininity which seeks to exploit women's power over men in ways that harm them. We should strive to raise healthy HUMAN BEINGS who respect and honour and cherish the ‘masculine’ and the ‘feminine’ qualities in both men and women. We should not mutilate their bodies to make them fit the objectified genders that this culture creates for them.
I'm appalled that you and Jeremy - both men I respect for the important work that you're doing - cannot recognize the basic humanity of women and the dark road that we're going down because men blame women for the loss of their masculinity. No thanks. Women are already reeling from the destruction of their rights to private spaces away from men, reproductive rights, legal rights.
In closing, I dream of a world where men wake up and recognize the harm that they’ve done to women in their roles as fathers, husbands, brothers, sons, etc and women wake up and recognize how they deserve to be seen not just as objects but as full human beings. It seemed for a while that we were getting there, but the feminism project went off the rails, being coopted by the media, fertility, sex trafficking and porn industry which profits enormously off of women’s bodies. I despair for my children and granddaughter. I had hoped men like you and Jeremy would take up the challenge of getting feminism back on track by showing what good men do – model masculine behaviour that affirms women’s humanity, not denies it.
You tell it like it is my friend. So interesting to me, as a therapist, how I have to walk on eggshells while seeing couples (in fact, I decided this week to stop seeing couples and only see individuals, I think I can do better work without a muzzle on (no pun intended)) although I walk on eggshells I still hold what I believe to be the truth, I just get a lot of flak for it. As you know, I am an archetypal psychotherapist, and what you describe here is so clearly a very serious archetypal dysfunction.
Men need to learn to pull the sword half way out of the scabbard and let the sun glint off its shiny surface into the eyes of his opponent, rather than pull it all the way out and start slashing heads off when it is not appropriate. I find more women in my practice prodding men to slash rather than stand up to situations with strength and fortitude, with one hand on the sword, always ready, but strong enough to know when to use it. It isn't a woman's responsibility to make a man a man, but we are all in this together...
Thank you for this...no one can ever accuse you of having no balls.
All very perceptive and true. We need really strong women too in order to have strong, real men. Women and men seem to have been weakened across the board by the trending narratives and the mass psychosis you write of. When we ordinary folks notice this on a daily basis it’s gotta be pretty real. Also can’t help but think of the powerful effect of online forums. I see them as weakening all of us. They’re like High School as forces to move people toward the lowest common denominator. Thanks.
Mark McDonald, I don't even know where to begin with this, but let me start with Exhibit A: https://williamaferguson.substack.com/p/what-a-coincidence?s=r
The thing is, toxic masculinity AND toxic femininity DO exist. They are the extremes of the gender roles manifested by deeply disturbed and traumatized people who believe that by exploiting the power they have over the opposite sex, they can benefit themselves at great expense to the other.
There are approximately 3 and half billion women in the world. They should not all have to constrain their behaviour, becoming more ‘feminine’ according to the gender roles that are imposed on them in order for men not to be predators. The work of feminists - and even that is a very broad endeavour that cannot possibly represent the interests of all women around the world - has been to liberate women from the brutality of male predation and place women on an equal economic, political, social and legal footing in society. Feminism was intended to elevate women from their status as chattel and property to actual human beings. Feminism, women's liberation, would simply not exist if patriarchal gender roles were working for women. As much as men would like to think so, women don’t all wish to be subservient to men. The average woman would like to be treated like a human being who matters, who is respected, whose boundaries are honoured and whose voice is heard.
Because you live a very insular, privileged and affluent life, you cannot possibly know what it means to realize every day that women are seen as only having value for their appearance. Yet here you are clearly saying that women should enjoy it, men should do more of it. I shouldn't have to say this, but being objectified is dehumanizing. Appreciating the opposite sex is fine as long as you appreciate more than just their body. But men stereotypically, because our culture condones this, don't seem to be particularly interested in what women have to offer beyond their bodies. 80% of men enjoy pornography, starting as young as 11 years old on average. But the porn men enjoy now is utterly vile, abusive, degrading and despicable. Boys and men are being taught through porn that women's bodies are to be CONSUMED, not appreciated. They take that perspective out into the world and then resent that women don't accept their predatory behaviour as normal. What you're proposing - and this is terrifying to me as a woman - is that men be ENCOURAGED to dehumanize women, as if they don't already do enough of it.
Mark, there's a reason why 90% of the prison inmates are male. And even the 10% of inmates who are female are there mostly for non-violent crimes. In fact the vast majority of female prison inmates are themselves survivors of abuse at the hands of their husbands, fathers, brothers, sons, boyfriends. What would you propose these women should have done? Be MORE feminine? As if their abusers became abusive because they weren't feminine enough? That's misogynist and utterly out of touch with reality.
If you check out William Ferguson's substack, all of his articles, he documents, along with many other men out there thank goodness, the rampant misogyny that we're seeing globally. Men don't become predators and monsters because women aren't feminine enough. Men become monsters because women have been portrayed as prey in our media, in cultural stories about romance, in pornography (Read Porn Inc for a shocking exploration of what male sexuality is becoming - https://www.amazon.com/Big-Porn-Inc-Exposing-Pornography/dp/1876756896), in men's groups. Men simply don't see women as human. Your article is yet another example of this.
So, no. we should not celebrate toxic masculinity. We should celebrate strong, healthy grounded men AND women in whatever capacity they show up on a continuum of masculine and feminine traits. We should not shame and punish women who are strong and try to weaken them in order for men not to be afraid of them. We should discourage toxic femininity which seeks to exploit women's power over men in ways that harm them. We should strive to raise healthy HUMAN BEINGS who respect and honour and cherish the ‘masculine’ and the ‘feminine’ qualities in both men and women. We should not mutilate their bodies to make them fit the objectified genders that this culture creates for them.
I'm appalled that you and Jeremy - both men I respect for the important work that you're doing - cannot recognize the basic humanity of women and the dark road that we're going down because men blame women for the loss of their masculinity. No thanks. Women are already reeling from the destruction of their rights to private spaces away from men, reproductive rights, legal rights.
In closing, I dream of a world where men wake up and recognize the harm that they’ve done to women in their roles as fathers, husbands, brothers, sons, etc and women wake up and recognize how they deserve to be seen not just as objects but as full human beings. It seemed for a while that we were getting there, but the feminism project went off the rails, being coopted by the media, fertility, sex trafficking and porn industry which profits enormously off of women’s bodies. I despair for my children and granddaughter. I had hoped men like you and Jeremy would take up the challenge of getting feminism back on track by showing what good men do – model masculine behaviour that affirms women’s humanity, not denies it.